FOSTEX
FR2 Compact Flash/Micro Hard Drive Deck For Field Recording
In
a message dated 12/15/04 3:56:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, dxxxxxxxxxd@hotmail.com
writes:
Hello
Leonard,
I'm
David in Australia, keen to gain your recommendations for mike/preamp,
etc.
I'm
not new to computers and audio, and have decided to branch out
into
ambient field recording (not music events). Hopefully I can obtain
some
interesting sounds to incorporate into music loops and surround-sound
compositions. I will probably be needing a wind shielding arrangement.
I
like very high quality gear and I'm planning on purchasing the
new Fostex
FR-2 field recorder, which saves direct to PCMCIA hard disk
or to flash
memory. I aim to roam the countryside in search of inspirational
sounds!
Would
you be able to help me with binaural or HTRF mike choice?
Many
thanks in advance
David
Wxxxxx
Hello David,
Thank you for requesting system for rural non-industrial/music
ambient recording with Fostex
FR-2.
Recent Canada professional customer has tried FR-2 with mixed
results using deck's MIC preamplifier with 12 year old DSM microphone
with passive XLR mic level output; seems LINE level input is going
to work best with FR-2 using an external preamplifier.
Suggest best system with external PA-24NJ/XF
($1300 USD) preamplifier that powers and amplifies DSM-1S/M or
/H ($550 or $650 USD) + WHB/N ($250 USD) windscreen mic to dual
R/A XLR line input as best system for this deck.
DSM-1S/H $650
USD (or DSM-1S/M @ $550)
WHB/N $250
PA-24NJ/XF $1300
FedEX $
65
___________________________
Suggested TOTAL $2265 USD (or $2165
w/DSM-1S/M)
DSM mic models at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
PREAMP at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#micamp
Ship/Payment options: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
Let me know if suggestions for best system for FR-2 make good
affordable sense, when/where you need this shipped with Tele number,
and what method of payment is best for you. Suggest most
secure $65 USD FedEX shipping for delivery in Australia.
Side NOTE: This Fostex deck may require external
battery for practical long recording time as 8 AA cells
do not last for very long. Also, NiMH cells may be
too cumbersome to keep recharging several carefully 'kept
matched' battery sets, and expense of regular disposable
cells seems costly and environmentally unsound for regular use.
May be possible to run the deck from disposable 8-10 quantity
alkaline D cell pack for over 25 hours
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo
----------------------------
Sonic Studios "18 Years
of Stereo/Surround Audio History with DSM Microphones"
Patented HRTF Portable Ambient Systems for Multichannel Field/Studio/Event
Recording
---------------------------------
Informative Web Site: http://www.sonicstudios.com/
DSM Microphones, MD/DAT/CF/HD/Laptop Portable Multichannel Recording
Systems/reviews+tips+FAQ+mp3
USA FREE: 1-877-347-6642 TEL: 541-459-8839
------------------------------------------------
A World Wish: "A bit of technical knowledge coupled to a
great deal of God-given wisdom"
New
Technology Memory/H.Drive Recorder Advisory
In
a message dated 12/16/04 7:52:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, cinemasoundxxxxxxx@mac.com
writes:
Leonard
& Debbie.
I'm determined to find the right combination of gear to maintain
the
highest quality of recording within a
realistic budget. (This will include the DSM purchase)
I'm
going to L.A. in February, and Florida in March, and I'd really
like to put together something to take with me.
Perhaps
you can suggest an alternate recording device, available on
todays market which you think will perform
as well as or better than the DAT.
I haven't experimented with the new Mini Disks yet, but as you
know,
any new format from Sony is just waiting to get blown away.
and from what I've read in many reviews, people don't believe
that Mini
Disk will be around much longer.
Have you had any experience with Memory Card recorders, or portable
Hard Disc Recorders etc. etc.?
Any
suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Kindest
Regards,
Kevin
Hxxxxx M.P.S.E.
Ontario, Canada
Hello Kevin,
For the most part, I'd suggest forgetting about MiniDISC format
as Sony has made this a crippled consumer format at best for recording
live sound. ONLY advantage of new technology (NT) recording
decks (just now showing up) is some offer higher definition 2-track
stereo and multichannel 24bit/96K recording ability. Otherwise,
using PCM-M1 for reliable 16 bit/48K 2-channel stereo ability
still seems most practical choice for many good reasons.
The following is the rant on NT decks:
New Compact Flash/Hard Drive audio portable recording technology
seems to be moving way too slowly in supplying refined decks of
good reliable design and practical long running internal powering
options. Small size, high quality 16bit/44.1-48K, shock
resistant, and long running time, that was fully realized with
Sony PCM-M1 DAT deck, has yet to be shipped (in ready available
quantity) that uses NT.
Only small-compact-easily powered deck in sight is Edirol
R1 that might be a good candidate using CF, but has limited
16bit/44.1K recording, and very, very few R1 units have shipped
to vendors who all have long waiting lists of customers for this
model. So Edirol R1 has NOT been (fully) evaluated as yet
(December 2004).
Higher quality recording with 24bit/88.1K-192K Compact/Flash or
micro-Hard Drive (hard to find these) is possible with available
large size Fostex
FR-2 (~$1300 without storage). Customers who have
tried this remark on good overall design, but also the impracticality
of using 8 AA cells for maybe getting 2 hours worth of recording.
Also, one customer trying 1992 DSM
with passive adapter into XLR mic input reports Fostex FR-2
preamplifier is noisy (mostly with hum) when using this vintage
mic. Same mic seems fine when used with other
decks like Deva
II (4-channel HD) recorder or vintage TCD-D10 DAT.
So FR-2 may be best used for advantage of 2-track stereo 24bit/96K
high definition recording ability with DSM mic, but only
with using PA-24NJ-XF ($1300) model preamplifier for LINE level
input to FR-2.
FR-2 may be a good field deck to choose for needing high definition
recording ability, only if awkward size/powering and lack of cheap
storage strategy does not discourage this choice. The issue
of recording a few very long recordings (or a lot of short duration
clips) to compact flash or tiny hard drive has real remote location
limitations. Lack of portable storage may be less an
issue when Edirol releases for shipment Edirol
R-4 24bit/96K 4-Channel portable that records to internal
40 GIG Hard Drive (also to Compact Flash).
In
contrast, 4 mm DAT tape (with limited 2-4 GIG capacity) has always
been very practical to use for storage (or archive)
of good reliability for field projects of any duration.
With the new technology using limited capacity CF storage or micro
drives, it seems necessary to frequently be dumping recordings
on to larger more secure (backed up) disk type storage.
This seems an especially important issue while traveling when
there is most likely no practical means to store a series of digital
recordings in a secure 'Raid' HD 'archive' system.
Instead, it may be practical to burn a series of DVD-Audio or
DVD-R data file disc from overflowing smaller deck storage using
a portable laptop system (or something like the new Sony 'stand-alone'
portable DVDirect
drive that records with/without computer connection).
However,
I still feel that optical storage is still at least if not more
fragile than DAT tape cassette. Any form of optical disk
needs careful physical storage and handling even when using high
reliability DVD blank media from established quality manufacturers. So
with optical, suggest making at least TWO backups just in case.
Hard
drives inside and external to laptops can fail, taking too
many GIGS (hours/days) of recordings with them. At least
with DAT tape and optical disk, it is unlikely that whole collections
would be lost due to media storage failure as this media cannot
store that many GIGS of data like 40-250 GIG HD storage.
So with large Hard Drive storage, having two drives (2'd HD and/or
series of Optical disks) for backup seems most wise. However,
this type of backup makes for much work after making the recordings,
and more computer (data backup) equipment that needs to be taken
on extended recording trips as you plan to do next year.
The short of this is all these technologies, new or old, work
more or less to record field audio. You must decide what
deck model using available technology (with resulting recording
bit depth/bandwidth) fits your needs for a particular set of project
requirements. Size of deck, power requirements, and form
of storage are all consideration that I cannot make for you.
With that said,
www.fullcompass.com seems to have stock of PCM-M1 DAT
deck if deciding 16 bit/48K meets your requirements.
The DSM mic can be made to work with M1 directly or (more versatile)
with external DSM preamplifier.
This is mostly true with any available recording deck with
suitable DSM mic system component choices. I will suggest
a proper configuration once you decide on which recorder you need
or want to use for this purpose.
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo
----------------------------
In a message dated 3/31/03 6:24:28
AM Pacific Standard Time, peter_txxxxxx@yahoo.co.uk writes:
Subj:
Portable hard disk recording - Jukebox 3
Date: 3/31/03 6:24:28 AM Pacific
Standard Time
From: peter_txxxxx@yahoo.co.uk
To: guysonic@aol.com
Sent from the Internet
"Welcome to the group of
those who hope to buy an affordable direct-to-hard disk audio
recorder like the Archos or Nomad Jukebox, but with also having
proper mic input features AND quality A/D systems inside. These
first products fall far short of having needed features and internal
processing circuits of acceptable quality so far, but there's
hope for the future. "
I've just learnt that the latest
firmware (?! did it allready have the neccessary preamp, but not
the software to support it?!) for the Jukebox 3 adds support for
recording from a mono or stereo mic (see http://www.nomadworld.com/downloads/firmware/wma-jukebox3.asp).
Can you comment on this? I'm not a big audiophile, but would want
to make recordings where reasonable detail and particularly dynamic
range are fairly important (once bitten twice shy after getting
an MD with extreme, unavoidable, compression, and no manual control
of the record level. An ok meter, and control, even if relatively
coarse, of input gain are obviously also necessary). Sound quality
approximating that of a half decent minidisc (but with better,
or no, data compression) would suit me pretty well, at least for
now. I haven't been able to find any reviews analysing this aspect
of the machine ("Audio can be recorded by attaching a microphone
to the Jukebox" is a representative depth of insight here),
perhaps partly because it is such a new (and eerily unsung, it
seems) feature right now.
Another slight cause for concern
comes from a user review on amazon.com; "I was really excited
about the recording feature in the Nomad. This feature is worthless.
You can't pull the music back off the mp3 player because they
don't want you to pirate music.". I think this was referring
to a slightly different model, but obviously having to go through
an extra pair of d/a a/d converters (and transferring in realtime)
would be highly irritating and lossy. I would appreciate any feedback
on this unit, and any new reflections on the general state of
portable hard disk recording - how long do you think it will be
before there are several manufacturers offering decent, comporably
costed, solutions (and why on earth does there seem to be next
to nothing at the pro end - surely people are itching to replace
their dats with something non-tape based with vast storage, 24/96,
possibly multichannel etc)?
Appologies for the verbosity,
and thanks again for any feedback, and for maintaining a valuable
resource in your website.
Regards,
Peter Txxx
Hello Peter,
I have evaluated firmware upgrade v1.10.06,
1.11.07, and next to latest v1.20.06 with good results on analog
input quality available, but have heard problems from those with
latest Nomad Jukebox 3 (NJ3) version upgrade 1.32.02 that boosts
analog input gain to 48 dB replicating a mic preamplifier analog
input gain stage.
It seems the latest version is NOT an improvement
with increased distortion and very audible digital system noise
bleeding into the recording most audible when the unit operated
with adjusted input gains greater +12 dB (the previous firmware
limit.)
 Also
note the difference in firmware operation as follows:
Firmware upgrade v1.20.06 allows -12 to 0 dB to +12 dB analog
LINE input recording adjustment IN 1 dB STEPS and (rather
crude) VU level indicator.
This is most desirable to have the 1 dB fine adjustment range
ability with using an external preamplifier, BUT NOTE that
the " -12 dB to 0 dB" range is TOTALLY USELESS as
FIRST STAGE INPUT OVERLOAD will occur regardless, with clipping
distortion most likely even if VU levels are showing within
the safe region!!!
So DO NOT use the adjustment below
0 dB (-12 dB to 0 dB range) as it is totally BOGUS in controlling
input overloads. ONLY the 0 dB to +12 dB range works for controlling
the input against overload.
For downloading (ONLY as suggested)
next to latest NJ3 firmware upgrade v1.20.06 GO TO
www.nomadworld.com/drivers/.....
In other words, newest firmware
upgrade v1.32.02 changes the input gain to be much greater than
before and is in 4 dB steps (0, +4, +8, +12 dB, and so on to Max
+48 dB), but over +12 dB gain is likely adding distortion and
noise so do not use higher available gains if having (mistakenly)
upgraded to faulty 1.32.02 version. Also below 0 dB (the - dB
adjustment range) is likely again BOGUS and is to be avoided when
recording from LINE level input jack.
SUMMARY
Best NOT to upgrade to latest v1.32 version firmware for this
reason alone, instead use an external mic preamplifier like my
PA-24NJ
(for DSM mic ONLY) if best fidelity is desired, staying with no
greater than 1.20.06 version until (maybe) noise/distortion issue
is resolved in later than 1.32.02 firmware version.
CAUTION: The user CANNOT
(*easily) GO BACK to re-installing previous (maybe better working)
firmware upgrade once a later version is installed.
Also, I cannot comment on from direct
experience or heard about any upload lockout of perhaps 'marked
as copyrighted' recordings placed into the NJ3, but believe
this is NOT a problem with original recordings or those made
via analog input by the user. NJ3 has ability to record with
full bandwidth fidelity of uncompressed .WAV at sample rates
to 48K per second. Recording quality seems very nearly the
equivalent of existing portable PCM-M1 DAT audio deck for
most end-use purposes.
If you desire to record very satisfying,
highest quality live sound, then consider DSM
mic + PA-24NJ
preamplifier into Nomad Jukebox 3 or (with or without external
preamp) PCM-M1 DAT deck (without or with MOD-2
mic powering upgrade) as the finest quality system available
regardless of cost.
See DSM mic page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
See DAT deck review pages: http://www.sonicstudios.com/d100rev.htm
Listen to DSM MP3 recordings at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm
Slightly less quality, (not easily
audible to most), is to use this suggested system with
a Sharp portable MD of any available model.
See: Best
Sharp MiniDISC Models Past and Present
Much general recording discussion at: FAQ
PAGES
Shipping/payment options: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
PORTABLE
HARD DISK RECORDERS UPDATE (11/18/2003)
("with
the passing of time, all things may, or MUST change")
NOMAD
JUKEBOX 3 (NJ3):
*A
customer in JAPAN comments it IS POSSIBLE to go backwards
with NJ3 firmware versions, that is, reinstall previous
version firmware in cases where undesirable more recent
version firmware version has been installed. While this
was thought NOT possible because Creative Labs technicians
said it could not be done for some reason, here is the
suggested procedure that just may work regardless:
----pasted
tip -------
I can go backward if wrong firmware is installed.
It carries out by the following method.
1.
it will boot up into the emergency screen,
(if not, remove the battery, hold the stop
button, put the battery back in,
release the stop button as soon as the screen
lights up,
then press and release the play button.)
2.
select "3. Reload OS"
3.
It connects with PC
4.
Firmware Install (you can go backward if wrong firmware
is installed)
|
|
NEUROS
HD-20 AUDIO COMPUTER
My
current HD portable recorder favorite is NEUROS
HD 20 with
Firmware Upgraded from VERSION 1.38 (as sold) to having
most recent VERSION 1.44 installed .
This
unit is being produced by a somewhat unique small company
with
excellent website/phone support. In addition, Neuros Audio
has established strong connection to the OPEN firmware/software
development
community that's complete with on-site support/discussion
forums
and links to developers!!!
Both
Creative's NJ3 & NEUROS Audio HD units are similar
in several areas. Both require the installation of a free
firmware upgrade to function
as a full featured analog LINE-to-WAV digital audio Hard
Disk recorder system. After firmware upgrade, both show
a total LINE Recording level control range of +/- 12 dB
in 1 dB steps, but ONLY the 0 dB-to-+12 dB (-3 dB-to+12
dB range on the NEUROS) seems effective in avoiding LINE
input overload (clipping) distortion. Acceptable LINE
input level is
(typical consumer audio)
modest at about +1 dBv or ~ 1 volt RMS maximum.
The
NEUROS Audio Computer has excellent (measured) low noise
LINE input with realtime MANUAL input GAIN control, and
 quality
A/D processing. The spectrographic screenshot (at left)
shows -115 dB noise floor (with grounded 47 ohms resisters
at input; no input signal) at 1000 cycles; worst case
noise shows excellent -96 dB noise below 100 cycles.
In
addition, the NEUROS HD20 (with this firmware version)
has the best VU display of any low cost HD portable that
actually measured to within .5 dB accuracy wth the addition
of dual NUMERIC dB peak indicators.
While
the NEUROS VU display is greatly improved in this version,
the bar graphic is a bit too small, and operates in an
odd manner (compared to usual left-to-right VU indication)
traveling inwards toward maximum 0 dB VU (two simultaneous
directions) as levels increased.
However
small and odd as the VU bargraph display appears, I found
myself appreciating the display's overall accuracy, especially
the peak reading numeric dB display positioned below each
channel's bargraph low signal starting display areas.
|
In
a message dated 3/24/03 12:30:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, lorxxxxxxax@earthlink.net
writes:
Subj:
a recording system for my son
Date: 3/24/03 12:30:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: lxxxxg@earthlink.net
To: GuySonic@aol.com
Sent from the Internet
Hi,
folks,
I got to your web-site through Transom, and I need some
advice, if
you can spare the time. I'm the mother of an 11 year old boy who
is
home-schooling. He wants to start recording his own work-- interviews,
stories, and some music. He has the time to get serious about
this
project, but at this point I don't know how far he will take it.
I'm
ready to buy him the equipment he needs to begin. Could you recommend
something to suit a serious beginner?
Thanks for helping. We're excited, and ready to get started.
Sincerely,
Lorelei Sxxxxxx
Hello
Lorelei,
Starting
with a simple, lowest costing, but very good quality live sound
recording DSM mic + Portable deck system seems what you require
at this time. The suggestions that follow are based on this
assumption.
Let
me know if or when ready for alternate system suggestions where
budget, or simple controls operation is less a concern to maximum
recording quality, easier digital audio interface, and ability
to use the mic on a stand. This is usually afforded with
using a DAT
type deck, with or without external mic
preamplifier, and the LiteGUY
baffle on tripod stand, allowing the mic to be used without
needing to be Headworn by someone.
RECORDING
DECK CONSIDERATIONS:
Lowest
cost recorder is any model of Sharp (not Sony) MiniDISC recorder
for ~$200. These are available from here (older model MT15S)
or www.minidisco.com
which imports direct from Japan. Sharp no longer markets
these in USA: newest suitable imported model now available is
MT190.
GETTING
MD RECORDINGS OUT OF THE DECK
As you may have read already (in the FAQ
PAGES ?), consumer MD portables have ONLY ANALOG headphone/line
output jack.
This means quality direct transfer (to computer editing system
or CD recorder) of selected MD recordings is best done with
also having a second MD, but full size AC powered MD deck.
These larger MD decks can be purchased (now only used or new
$400+ Sony model) with standard digital audio SPDIF output features.
The full size MD deck will then interface with suitable computer
sound card, or digital input of ***CD recording deck.
In
other words, the full size deck is therefore used only for playing
back recordings made on the portable MD unit for direct digital
transfer to computer or (simpler to operate) CD-R recording deck.
***NOTE:
An alternative to somewhat complex computer system editing
of recordings for later CD-R replication, while still keeping
the process simple and interesting, audio MD recordings can
directly duplicated and then shared with others using a stand-alone
CD recorder deck that will accept both analog or digital input
from analog only output portable or full size MD deck digital
output.
With
this said, I must admit that many 11 year olds have NO trouble
figuring out how to operate computer-based audio editing and CD
burning software; as long as the computer is already fully functional
for this intended purpose.
CHOOSING
A DSM MODEL
The microphone (and how it is used) is responsible for 95% of
the recorded quality possible, everything else takes much less
importance to getting consistent (interest keeping) satisfaction.
DSM
microphones are available in a range of models that best suite
a certain range of sound recording interests.
See mic page for details: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
Lowest
costing DSM mic that might be suitable is the DSM-6/M model at
$350. The DSM-6/M is a moderately LOW sensitivity model
that is best suited for recording up to fairly loud PA speaker
amplified Pop/Jazz/Rock club/concert performances, but still can
be used for recording interviews and acoustic instruments (at
close range, especially with deck operating in lower quality boosted
high gain mic input mode) if some background noise (soft hiss
heard during more quiet portions) is not of too great a concern.
Perhaps
better for your child's interests (specific range of subjects?),
but costing a bit more are the DSM models best suited for recording
pure acoustic (very moderately or NOT amplified) interview, music,
and sound effects. These mic models are the very sensitive
DSM-1/M* ($450) and less sensitive,
but more versatile DSM-6/EH* ($500) models, or next less sensitive
DSM-6/H* ($400) model.
*NOTE:
These suggestions are DSM mic models in the LESS PRECISION
left/right channel match category; lower cost (than DSM-1S
or 6S/ standard models) by $100 with little or no audible
(what most can hear) sound quality loss.
SUMMARY:
Lowest costing MIC + DECK system is ~$550, but cost for a more
suitable DSM mic model could increase this to ~$700 or more depending
on *useful purpose.
*The
above suggested system is for indoor recording, or outdoors
ONLY where wind, rain, or long term exposure out in intense
Sun is not expected.
However, if most versatile and fully protected indoors/outdoors
recording ability is desired, then I strongly suggest adding
$250 to the system cost for the WHB/N. This also comes
with very practical protective carrying/storage zip case for
WHB-mic + mini deck combination.
See accessories page for best description of WHB/N:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm
I'm
sorry about the long length of this reply, but your requirements
must be understood and issues carefully considered so that long
term satisfaction with the choices is most likely. Please
consider the URLs presented as good reading for background and
look to the MP3 recordings page for examples of recordings and
systems use.
See: http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm
E-mail
(or maybe best to call if in USA) to answer further questions
and to order.
Payment/Shipping
options is prepaid or cash COD (in USA via FedEx) as shown at:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
Sonic Studios "17 Years of Making Audio History with DSM
Stereo Microphones"
Featuring Patented Headworn or HRTF Baffled Gear for Field &
Studio 3-D Ambient Sound/Music Recording
---------------------------------
Informative
Web Site: WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM
Microphone, Headphone, MD/DAT Portable Deck equipment reviews+Tips+MP3
sound files
USA FREE: 1-877-347-6642 1-(541)459-8839 TEL/ 42FAX
------------------------------------------------
A better wish: "A bit of technical knowledge coupled
to a great deal of God-given wisdom"
|
Subject:
portable music recording info
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.proDate: 1999/02/03
Message 1 in thread
From:
mnemonic@netusa1.net (mnemonic@netusa1.net)
I am considering purchasing a portable recorder for some
live music recording.
I am talking about stereo recording here, on budget.
Here's
what I want to know:
What
portable recording devices can anyone here recommend and
what
configuration have you used (mics/mixing/other gear) to
achieve this.
I
am not a 'bootlegger' but I am planning a trip next fall
and I would like
to make good ( not necessarily the BEST) recordings of
street musicians and
live music I can get using 'the best of both worlds' so
to speak, of
convenience and quality recording. I understand there's
always a tradeoff,
but I am looking for your experience here.
If
I am barking up the wrong tree here, please point me in
the right direction
of who to ask- or what other newsgroups I might look in.
Thanks,
Thom Yelton
mnemonic@netusa1.net
-----------==
Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Subject: Re: portable
music recording info Message
2 in thread
From:
Scott Dorsey (kludge@netcom.com) Newsgroups:
rec.audio.pro Date: 1999/02/03
In
article <7985qt$60k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> mnemonic@netusa1.net
writes:
>
>I am not a 'bootlegger' but I am planning a trip
next fall and I would like
>to make good ( not necessarily the BEST) recordings
of street musicians and
>live music I can get using 'the best of both worlds'
so to speak, of
>convenience and quality recording. I understand
there's always a tradeoff,
>but I am looking for your experience here.
I'd
tend to recommend something like the Tascam DA P-1 recorder.
Using something like a single point stereo mike is usually
the way to do when working in the field like this because
placement becomes a problem. The Beyer single point mikes
are pretty good. Sony and Audio-Technica make some cheaper
ones that are better than nothing.
In
general, off-axis rejection and the sound of the mike
off-axis becomes a major issue when you're working in
doubtful acoustics with a lot of ambient noise, and better
mikes are worth paying for.
--scott--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Message 3 in thread
From: GuySonic (guysonic@aol.com) Newsgroups:
rec.audio.pro Date: 1999/02/03
Subject:
Re: portable music recording info
In
article <kludgeF6L5xy.CCJ@netcom.com>, kludge@netcom.com
(Scott Dorsey)
writes:
>
>From: kludge@netcom.com (Scott Dorsey)
>Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:03:34 GMT
>
>In article <7985qt$60k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
mnemonic@netusa1.net writes:
>>
>>I am not a 'bootlegger' but I am planning a trip
next fall and I would like to make good ( not necessarily
the BEST) recordings of street musicians and live music
I can get using 'the best of both worlds' so to speak,
of convenience and quality recording. I understand there's
always a tradeoff, but I am looking for your experience
here.
>
>I'd tend to recommend something like the Tascam DA
P-1 recorder. Using something like a single point stereo
mike is usually the way to do when working in the field
like this because placement becomes a problem. The
>Beyer single point mikes are pretty good. Sony and
Audio-Technica make some cheaper ones that are better
than nothing.
>
>In general, off-axis rejection and the sound of the
mike off-axis becomes a major issue when you're working
in doubtful acoustics with a lot of ambient noise, and
better mikes are worth paying for.
>--scott
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres
precis."
>
>
While
the DA-P1 is considered a pro deck, it's less than convenient
to use for your purpose as expensive batteries last 2 hours
at best, it's a bit large to carry around and the recording
performance is no better than a more practical alternative
such as Sony's TCD-D100 or (pro version of the same deck)
PCM-M1 costing less than half that of the DA-P1.
These
compact DAT decks will operate at least 5 hours on two lithuim
AA photo cells (or 3.5 hours on a $10 set rechargable NiMH
cells), have dual AKM 20 bit A/D system, an excellent mic
preamp for unbalanced mics or balanced with adapter.
Single
point mics are disappointing and not at all suitable for
use in difficult ambients. In general, single point stereo
mics still sound artificial (stereo quality) even in the
best situations. They've always sound like a good idea,
but fail to deliver any real and lasting satisfaction when
compared to the following suggested alternative. I know
many hundreds of recordists that started with single point
stereo mics and will never use them again.
One
of the most successful stereo mics with the Sony portable
DAT decks is Sonic Studios DSM that can be headworn and
there's windscreen accessories that allow unhampered recordings
in stiff winds.
Fletcher
used a LiteGUY baffled studio version of this same DSM microphone
with excellent reported performance while many small label
music and sound editorial companies use this exact Sony
deck + DSM mic system for capturing all kinds of music and
ambient sounds worldwide for their projects.
Portable
sound gathering is needs not be expensive, bulky, or difficult
to use in order to get the highest possible quality in difficult
ambients.
Best Regards in Sound & Music, Leonard Lombardo
Sonic Studios(tm) "Making Audio History With DSM(tm)
Microphones"
|
Subject: Re: Sharp or Sony
From: GuySonic
To: alt.audio.minidisc
Date: 4/19/01
In
article <9bm7k00m46@enews4.newsguy.com>, "jes.da.bes"
<jes@yifan.net> writes:
>Subject:
Sharp or Sony
>From: "jes.da.bes" <jes@yifan.net>
>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:34:55 +1000
>
>Sharp MT77 or Sony MZ900
>
>
>
Yes,
it does usually boil down to these two makes of Minidisc decks.
THE MODEL IS REALLY NOT SO IMPORTANT, IT REALLY IS WHO MADE THE
MODEL THAT MATTERS MOST. Please read more.
So
which make, Sharp or Sony? ......... Model be damned for what
is really important.
Really
depends on what's important to you.
Are
you a consumer couch potatoe or a producer of your own entertainment?
Do you ONLY buy prerecorded stuff, or do you want to mic your
own live recordings?
CHOICES,
CHOICES: Owning a Sony 'MD strait-jacket' (as cleverly designed
by Sony) or owning Sharp 'MD recording skates' (sounds like a
better time doesn't it).
Funny
thing is, Sony makes one of the finest portable DAT decks ever
made (PCM-M1);
go figure .... maybe MD and DAT are designed by a whole different
group seperated by a few islands with no telephone, or the groups
have very different motivations and objectives.
Consider
that MD (as Sony always envisioned it) was and still is meant
for consumers (read a product that makes you want to consume more),
and as designed by Sony is most suited for playing/copying all
those rerecorded MD/CD (like you already know that Sony is a huge
media music producer and pre-recorded MD/CD manufacturer, don't
you?). Sony is looking out for their best interest when they invented
MD and nothing has changed.
On
the other hand, Sharp (now please try to get this) is only in
the business of customer satisfaction 'with the MD deck and the
MD deck's full feature capability' which includes 'RECORDING YOUR
OWN STUFF WITH A MICROPHONE!!!!'
Sharp
is NOT TRYING TO GET AWAY OR FRUSTRATED WITH MAKING YOUR OWN LIVE
RECORDINGS by making decks that discourage the use of such things
as RECORDING USING A MICROPHONE. Sharp MiniDisc decks give you
full freedom and control with their deck design, but Sony designs
(and it's getting worse with newer models) is removing the full
freedom and control of using a microphone connected to their models
of MD deck.
So
which is better for what you want to do? Sharp
or Sony?
====================
Subject:
Re: Sharp or Sony
From: GuySonic
To: alt.audio.minidisc
Date: 4/19/01
In
article <XuED6.3136$D4.305864@www.newsranger.com>, Frosty
Morn<frostymorn@my-deja.nospam.nojunk.com> writes:
>Subject:
Re: Sharp or Sony
>From: Frosty Morn<frostymorn@my-deja.nospam.nojunk.com>
>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:37:11 GMT
>
>
>>Really depends on what's important to you.
>
>I suggest trying them out for yourself, which is what
>I think the previous poster is getting at.
>
>When I began my search, I started out with the attitude
of
>"anything but Sony" because of what I read about
>the need to pause before changing the manual record
>level. However, in my shopping I bought both a
>Sharp SR60 and a Sony R37. I tried them both with
>my AT822 mic recording acoustic stringed instruments.
>To my ear, the Sony recorded sound was closer to what
>I hear live. I returned the Sharp. In my case, the
>sounds I heard was more important to me that the
>recording convenience.
>
>My $.02
>
>
If
you use the Sharp models with the recording adjustment level set
at #20 or lower (staying within the 1-20 range), you will find
the Sharp decks at least the equal of what you'd get with the
Sony (as most reports confirm).
See
the RECORDING
TIPS page for more on suggested digital DAT or
MD analog MIC input settings:
Subj:
Re: What equipment do I need to tape a live concert?
Date:8/21/02 7:53:37 PM Pacific Daylight
Time
From:JSxxxxxxxxxD@xxxk12xx.us
To:GuySonic@aol.com
Sent from the Internet
I'm
interested in taping live concerts,
but I have no clue what equipment I need. Can you give me an idea
about what personal audio recording equipment exists and what
is the best. Also, how would I transfer my recordings to my computer
and then to CD? I know that may be asking a lot, so if you can
steer me to an existing web page that details the process, that
would be awesome. Thank you.
John
Sxxxxxxx
West Chester, PA
Hello John,
Thank
you for your inquiry for a suitable concert recording system.
Please advise me to what types of sound, or in this case the type
of music (and conditions of the venue) is of most interest.
Knowing
this, I can make specific DSM mic suggestions (~$450-$600) for
correct sensitivity model.
Look
to the DSM mic chart for finding a suggested DSM model that best
fits your loudest music interests at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
ALSO,
the FAQ pages have much to say about mics and recording decks:
FAQ
PAGES
Sample
sound clips (with equipment used) of various sounds/sessions/concerts
is at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm
---------------------------
TWO
CHOICES OF DECKS:
Low costing choice is ANY Sharp MD you can find available (MT15S
for $200 here); suggest NEVER use a Sony MiniDISC for this purpose.
Smallest and longest battery life of any high audio deck,
but downside of MD is 80 minute media recording maximum (takes
~1 minute time to change a disc) and can record a skip that's
audible or (if severe enough) make a track NOT playable if bumped
or given too much physical movement.
See:
Best
Sharp MiniDISC Models Past and Present
Best
possible recording quality (and easiest to use) is Sony PCM-M1
($950 here with MOD-2) DAT deck.
See 7 page review at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/d100rev.htm
Battery tips and external long run BC-1C is found at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm
These
two are the most practical deck choices at this time.
------------------
Also see the tips page for suggestions on
using microphone and MD or DAT deck for live music recording:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm
------------------
General
Considerations:
Recording a concert is requires a working system of mic and portable
audio recorder. The system of mic/deck needs be carefully chosen
for the kind of concert music of interest and operating conditions
within a music venue.
First
and most important is the microphone. Choosing an appropriate
microphone (and method/position of using the mic) will determine
95% of the recording quality regardless of the recording deck
used or later audio editing done to finalize to CD.
The
microphone sensitivity needs be enough, but not too much to
clearly record your favorite sounds without audible deck/mic background
noise (most critical for pure solo acoustic music), or overload
distortion (loud bassy or boomy Pop/Rock)
The
many available models of DSM microphone (and PA powering accessories)
allow easy and consistent satisfaction for recording a wide range
of subjects from pure acoustic nature outdoors ambient to full
Metal Rock concert.
--------------------
MAKING
A CD
Making a CD of your recording requires a transfer of the MD or
DAT recording to either a suitable computer soundcard or direct
into a CD-R recording deck. Digital audio transfer (verses
using analog line) usually gives the best results.
For
MD recordings made on a portable deck, digital transfer is only
possible with playing the recorded MD back on a second non-portable
full size ($200 to $400 shelf type) model that has optical or
coaxial (or both) digital output.
M1
DAT recordings requires purchasing the available Pro
Digital coaxial digital interface cable in stock
here for $150.
Computer
external USB ($80 to $300+) or Firewire ($300+) connected soundcard
with digital input/output are the easiest to connect to computers
that lack digital audio I/O or quality stereo analog input features.
----------------
Summary:
Let me know the specifics of your interest with a phone call or
e-mail for appropriate DSM mic model and system suggestions.
NOTE:
Some concerts allow tapers to set up equipment at their seats
or provide an area for this activity.
When a system for this is desired, the addition of the LiteGUY
baffle ($600), 6 foot mic cable extension ($35), and a folding
tripod mic stand ($195) is suggested
See: http://www.sonicstudios.com/liteguy.htm
(Continued)Subj:RE:
What equipment do I need to tape a live concert?
Date:8/22/02 8:29:40 PM Pacific
Daylight Time
From:JSxxxxxxxx@wxxxd.xx2.xx.us
To:GuySonic@aol.com
Sent from the Internet
Leonard,
Thank
you so much for the info. It helped me tremendously.
The
kind of music that I would be recording is primarily Rock that
could range from a natural acoustic sound to a harder edge (but
not that hard, for I plan to record mostly jam bands - sometimes
the sound guys at those concerts can load on the bass and drown
out the finer sounds, but I'll have to go on faith that they won't
I guess). Knowing that, let me know the right kind of mic that
would suit my purposes. Thanks.
REPLY:
DSM-6S/L ($450) IS LIKELY A GOOD CHOICE shown on chart at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
If the deck used can directly power the DSM mic, bass filtering
(for venues that require bass reduction may be done with PA-6LC
or PA-6LC3B ($125 or $200) models shown on page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/pa_x.htm
When recording venues where bass reduction is not needed or
desired, the PA adapter is left at home.
Also, After looking at the two recording units (the MD and Sony
DAT), I think that the DAT serves my purposes the best. MD sounds
too accident prone, possibly. I want something durable that, when
bumped, can take it.
About
the Sony DAT system . . . the PCM-M1 sounds great. One question
though, on what do you actually record? Is that DAT system a cassette
deck or is the music stored on some sort of hard drive? Just curious.
REPLY:
DAT tape is EXACTLY a miniature version of a VHS video cassette
that will play for up to 3 hours high qualty mode. Cost is anywhere
from $3 to $7 for 2 or 3 hour audio DAT to equivalent DDS (4mm
data grade) in 60 or 90 meter tape length.
Finally, let me know if you have any used equipment for sale (the
new stuff is pretty expensive which just means that I would have
to save a bit more) and some sort of list of all the gear that
I would need in order to begin my recording career : ) Thanks
again.
REPLY:
http://www.american-digital.com/ is recently selling new, B-stock
PCM-M1 decks for $619; lowest price seen for full warranty 'new'
M1 deck, but would need $85 MOD-2 upgrade if direct DSM powering
without using a PA adapter is desired. Avoid buying a TCD-D7
or D8 as head life is only 500 hour maximum and recording quality/features
inferior to M1.
A used TCD-D100 or M1 DAT in good condition is a possibility,
but for $200, a Sharp MD (MT15S)
would suffice if careful when recording, and later a second
MD deck (new or used) with digital output can be purchased.
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
Subj:
Re: request for info on mic . . (is Archos
Jukebox suitable to use as a recording deck?)
In
a message dated 5/27/02 3:20:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xxxxx@ORION.sas.xxxx.edu
writes:
<<
Subj: request for info on microphone ...
Date: 5/27/02 3:20:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: xxxxxx@ORION.sas.xxxxx.edu
To: GuySonic@aol.com
Regarding:
STEREO
MICROPHONE
that has definitely stands out in its field is the Sonic Studios
DSM series. They are smaller than a penny, can be worn on the
temples of glasses, take their power from the plug-in power
feature of many small minidisc recorders, and their sound is
nothing short of amazing. hand made by a real audio maven, they
have been used in everything from gaming, to movies, to Jim
Metzner of Pulse of the Planet, and Sandy Tolan. Check them
out, even listen to some recorded examples at the somewhat cluttered
but very informative website:
www.sonicstudios.com
Keep us posted on your progress. Good Luck.
Mxxxxxl Johnson
Send E-Mail to:
GuySonic@aol.com
Can you tell me if the microphone described has a pre-amp in it
or
not? I am thinking of using it with archos jukebox recorder.
Thanks
Jay xxxxxxxxx, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Folklore
Department of Anthropology
University of Pxxxxxxxxxx
>>
Hello
Jay,
Welcome
to the group of those who hope to buy an affordable direct-to-hard
disk audio recorder like the Archos or Nomad Jukebox, but with
also having proper mic input features AND quality A/D systems
inside. These first products fall far short of having needed features
and internal processing circuits of acceptable quality so far,
but there's hope for the future.
In
other words, these hard disk (with ready two-way computer interface)
products are NOT going to work for easily making microphone based
recordings, and the resulting analog input processing is reported
to be of disappointing quality.
In
the meantime, suggest reading the FAQ
PAGES about deck options and mics on my site and considering
either a SHARP minidisc
(NOT Sony) or a Sony PCM-M1
DAT for this purpose.
Advise
me on your desire is for recording subjects and ambient environment
expected for best system suggestions.
A
call here (1-877-347-6642) is also
welcome to discuss practical options.
Payment/Shipping
options is on page:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
(Part
2)
Subj:
Re: request for info on mic . . (is Archos
Jukebox suitable to use as a recording deck?)
Message
dated 5/28/02 9:51:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xxxxxxx@ORION.sas.upenn.edu
writes:
<<
Subj: Re: request for info on microphone ...
Date: 5/28/02 9:51:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: xxxxxxxr@ORION.sas.upenn.edu (Jay xxxxxxx)
To: GuySonic@aol.com
Hi,
thanks for the tips; there's no question (after perusing your
tip pages etc.) that you folks give great advice, but tell me
this: i'm not interested in recording any high audio quality materials,
no concerts etc., just voice and voice interviews, and i was anticipating
using the archos jukebox to record them, and then being able to
drag and drop onto a laptop to burn a CD with each interview,
to distribute to transcribers. efficient and easy, i thuoght.
given that i'm not concerned with capturing music/audio to enjoy
per se, do you still have concerns about the archos product?
I
would greatly greatly value any information/thoughts/suggestions
you might care to offer.
and btw, thanks for being so strong on providing real value to
customers through information rather than the typical corporate
pr bs that omits all the details about everything.
<<
Hello
Jay,
The
desire to have any recording go direct to a computer hard disk
as a .wav file is undeniable and a great time-saver.
This
I can attest to from personal experience.
While
the latest Creative Nomad/Archos Jukebox models now seem to have
more analog input controls for adjusting line level inputs, they
still do not have low level MIC preamplifier stage especially
with High/Low input sensitivity ranging features (like on Sharp
MD and Sony DAT) . In addition, one or both Jukebox models still
may not have (or easy to view) signal level VU indicator.
No
easy to read VU makes the recordist blind, and risking to experience
way too low a recorded signal to occasions of awful sounding overload
clipping distortion.
THEREFORE:
Lombardo's Jukebox System Suggestions
In
order to practically utilize available Jukebox devices for low
level speech recording (virtually regardless of microphone type
used) at least some kind of external mic amplifier stage is
needed with output signal level VU.
In
other words, as far as I can tell, the Jukebox devices are not
complete enough to function as stand-alone for your application
without additional input gear like a Sharp MD or Sony DAT (using
ANALOG Line/Phones output or DIRECT DIGITAL DAT output) into
the Jukebox.
This
is regardless of RECORDING QUALITY or ease of recording operation
issues.
For
these reasons, I suggest the following two systems to make practical
and affordable the latest Jukebox incarnations:
1.
Low budget: Use any Sharp MD portable model (NOT a Sony)
for microphone input processing (preferably using the #0-#20
Low range) for VU level control-to-Phones/Line level output
function; the output from the MD is then Miniplug-to-miniplug/or
dual RCA patched into the Line input of the Jukebox.
MD headphones output level is usually set to full up maximum
and Jukebox input level is initially set to full maximum.
Roughly
determine just WHERE the VU indication on the Sharp MD deck
relates to overload on the Jukebox. If needed, adjust the
MD headphones output and/or the Jukebox input level manual
control downward slightly to allow getting CLOSE RELATIONSHIP
to the MD deck
Max
signal indication at 0 dB VU to maximum acceptable for Jukebox
input.
NOTE
THESE CALIBRATION SETTINGS and always adjust for this before
using the system.
2.
With more budget available
the system likely is easier to use. This seems especially
the case with a Sony PCM-M1 DAT with improved mic input processing
quality, and dual channel backlighted VU indication.
Major
carrot is the possibility of using the PCM-M1's direct Digital
AUDIO TOSLINK OUT (with accessory cable) connection.
So
the DAT deck may always be used identical as described for
MD, except now using available (a fixed level) LINE output
jack.
In
addition, direct Toslink digital connection to the Toslink
input featured Jukebox is now possible. Audible advantages
with using an M1 DAT deck via Toslink digital connection is
a boost in low level mic signal quality inherent in this DAT
model. Also, the Jukebox analog line circuitry is bypassed,
a very likely good idea and very purist in any case.
A
logistical gain is now ALWAYS the DAT deck VU indications
are correctly calibrated (automatically) for any model Jukebox
without further consideration.
In
other words, the Sony DAT PCM-M1 + Jukebox direct digital
TOSLINK system is would seem easier to operate, and with a
best chance for having consistent recording quality.
It
is good to remember that both MD and DAT DO NOT NEED TO BE
RECORDING to serve as input processor to a Jukebox device.
Only MD decks need to actually have a blank MD inside, but
do not need to spin this working in RECORD SETUP MODE. This
takes but one button push to activate from being off.
The
PCM-M1 and TCD-D8 deck need NOT TO HAVE A BLANK TAPE INSIDE
to stay operating in record setup mode.
To
me it looks like a choice between getting a Sharp MD or Sony
DAT with your choice of a Jukebox model.
Lastly,
it almost goes without saying that deciding on a practical microphone
is equal in importance for having a satisfactory recording system
in any case. Mic choices are another favorite subject discussed
here. Let me know if considering using a Mono 'By Lombardo' Lapel
mic and/or desire a stereo DSM-1S/M
model with WHB for versatile indoor/outdoors speech/nature ambient
work. (Found on page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm)
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
Subj:
Re: Portables DATs- Which one? #53
Date:
02/12/98
To: DAT-Heads@fedney.near.net
>> Your posted message:
From: >
Subject: Portables DATs- Which one?
Reply-To: jpjpco.
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:15:31 -0600
I am looking to purchase a professional portable DAT. I
would like to
spend between $1,000 to $2,000. My friends have recommended
the Sony D8
and the Tascam P1. Are these the only choices? What
is the best
portable DAT in your opinion? I will pay the premium for
the best
recording capability, but I want to make sure I receive it.
Thanks for your help.
Your Fan
JP
Email address : jpjpco@...........
Best Quality and Best Capability are two different issues and
depends on recording style...mics...and some other issues.
Best overall quality in a portable is the Sony TCD-D100 or PCM-M1;
reliability of these two virtually identical decks is reported
excellent and seems better than DA-P1 and D7/D8 decks (...which
seem more reliable than the DA-P1 but at equal overall recording
quality).
For Stealth taping style, (or headworn DSM mic usage), the D100/M1
decks are ideal by 'phantom' powering the electret type mics directly
with Plug-in-Powering feature (should be MOD-2 upgraded for best
DSM mic performance). These decks are very easy to power
internally or with external pocket sized packs (available from
Sonic Studios) for 25 to 50 hours.
You need adapters to use D100/M1 decks with standard XLR or 1/4"
mic connectors and these mics would need to be self battery powered
or use an external in-series phantom power supply. (NOTE:
Sonic Studios has 'safe' mini-DAT mic adapters that are secure
and won't ever damage the deck's jacks.... if needed)
If only using mics that need 48 volt phantom power (and for balanced
XLR 25-50 foot long-run cables) AND only wanting an all-in-one
deck solution, the DA-P1 is the only answer regardless of the
other issues. You'll need to address the High-power DAT
deck battery requirements with additional external battery systems.
If using standard XLR mics and want the very best quality from
this style of recording, then using the D100/M2 decks (going in
Line input) with an EXTERNAL
mic preamplifier (that also supplies standard mic 12-48
volt phantom powering) is the best system. This also allows
just the D100/M2 to be utilized as a stealth, stand-alone deck.....and
DSM mic stealth powering deck later as a bonus.
The DA-P1 seems a better deck for using as a home deck because
of its full-sized heads and faster motors but, spending less on
the higher quality recording D100/M1 decks may allow a better
solution with a 2'd standard-sized home consumer or pro deck purchase.
Your choice will greatly depend on all these issues: what you
want to record (bands that allow taping ...and/or.... stealth
ability), which mics/method you're going to use, how important
quality, system size, versatility, and if you also need a robust
playback deck with faster rewind/editing features.
Money is the least important issue, recording ability, available
opportunity, and equipment reliability/satisfaction is the most
important.
"Life is too short; purchase the best suitable quality/value you
can afford"
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard Lombardo, Sonic Studios(tm)..."Making Audio History With
DSM(tm) Microphones"
TEL: 541-459-8839 /\ FAX: 541-459-8842 /\ USA Free: 1-877-347-6642
Informative WEB SITE: HTTP://WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM
"A bit of knowledge coupled to a great deal of wisdom serves us
best"
------------------------------------
<<
Subj: mic info for DA-P1
Date: 98-02-13
17:46:06 EST
From: joel@.com (Joel )
To: guysonic@aol.com (Leonard Lombardo)
hi leonard---i wrote a few weeks ago and haven't heard from you
so i thought i'd try again.
i'm interested in your mics for post-production sfx recording...indoor,
outdoor and a little foley. i'll be using a tascam da-p1.
i was wondering which model(s) you'd recommend...i'm a little
confused as to whether the dsm-1, dsm-6 or dsm-6s would be appropriate
for my needs.
if you could, please reply to this address as well as joelschwelling@sprintmail.com.
thanks much.
Joel Sc----
Sr. Audio Designer
The Troupe/Modern --------
Windham, NH, USA
>>
Hello Joel,
Thank you for expressing interest in these products.
Sorry about the need for a second query. I may have missed
your E-Mail because
there's no record of reception or a reply.
The DSM-6S/EH may be the best for most recordings under 117 db
SPL (a mic table on the web site helps define best model uses).
For outdoor recording where the slightest breezes are present,
some mechanism for wind screening (WHB) or an umbrella should
be considered.
The DA-P1 is not the ideal deck as the phantom powering available
is a liability to damage the DSM (DA-P1 mic powering can be switched
off to avoid damage) and a PA-x powering adapter of some model
is needed to power the DSM microphone; a mini-stereo jack to dual
XLR adapter is also necessary if using the PA-6 type adapter.
The DA-P1's mic preamplifier is not as quiet as I would like to
have it.
Bottom line, using you present deck will consume 3 times the power
and have about four times increase in hardware mass. All
this with much less recording quality and reliability.
The suggested deck in terms of much better mic & dual 20 bit
A/D is the Sony TCD-D100 (or PCM-M1 pro 'identical' version) that
is MOD-2 upgraded to optimize the standard Sony mic powering feature
('plug-in-power') for DSM direct powering.
Any DSM-6S model mic is then directly plugged into this deck model
and the entire DSM mic & D100/M1 system is an audibly much
higher quality recording package that can also fit in your shirt
pocket and run for up to 3.5 hours on the supplied rechargeable
NiMH cells or up to 8 hours on just 2 AA size Lithium cells!
Reliability of this deck is the best in the business and only
one connector interface for the mic directly powered by the decks
mic input.
Please consider these suggestions, your present deck is an all-in-one
marvel for powering standard mics with long balanced cable runs
but will mostly hinder your satisfaction, freedom, and versatility
for truly portable ambient stereo sound recording.
If you haven't seen the Sonic Studios site already, please take
a look.
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard Lombardo, Sonic Studios(tm)..."Making Audio History With
DSM(tm) Microphones"
---------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Which Portable? D8/D100/M1
Reply-To:
@cyburban.com
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 00:31:54 -0400
Hey out there in DAT land,
I've been lurking and learning since last July and bought my first
DAT
deck (a Sony R300) in December. Well, I'm getting tired
of having to
send b/p to parents on trees and would also like to be able to
patch in
at the shows I attend in NYC and surroundings. A portable
is in dire
need!
My first choice would be a DA-P1, but $1350 + outboard batteries
is out
of the question. $700 to $800 (including those silly 7 pin
patch cords)
is more like it, so it looks like a D8/D100/M1 will have to do.
It seems that the D8 for ~$600 would be the *easiest* because
you don't
have the daisy chain concerns of the D100/M1. But, the newer
technology
of the D100/M1 could be worth
the hassle, if you can be overcome the incompatability.
I've read that the Oades have a new $100 cable that fixes the
D100/M1
voltage problem and allows you to feed a digital signal out to
a D8 (as
long as the signal your host deck is getting is digital.)
For another
$50, you can get the same cable with a switch that allows you
to feed a
digital signal out to a D8 even if your host deck is getting an
analog
signal. ***Please, please anyone correct me if I'm wrong
on this.***
The D100 also for ~$600 looks real nice with the earphones and
remote
display thing that seems really convienent for stealthing or listening
on the go.
The M1 ~$700 looks nice for the lack of SCMS (but doesn't have
the
remote thingy.)
How concerned should I be about SCMS? I would be able to
ignore SCMS
with my R300 and copy ANY tape. All the tapes I've received
so far from
trees and grovels have SCMS=00, so it seems that the only tapes
I'd be
passing on with SCMS=10 or 11 would be the ones that I master
at a
show. Would this make them that much less desirable?
OK, I know.. a lot of questions and options here, but where else
does
one go to get unbiased (for the most part ;-) ) advice?
Please offer suggestions on which deck and cable options would
be best
and why!
I'd love to hear from you archiving warriors!
If you reply directly, please CC the List, too.
Thanks for all knowledge, past, present and future! This
list is *the
shit* :-)
Richard
>>>
Hello Richard,
Your need for the SCMS-free feature is being met by the R300..........
best choice for a quality and advanced feature portable deck would
seem the D100 (identical to the M1 but has the all accessories
short of a digital I/O cable).
The battery problem (and one reason this deck gets put at the
end of a patch chain) is virtually solved with using an external
battery system such as the BC-1 ($80) shown on the DAT battery
systems page on the web site listed below........... 25+ hours
on 4 C alkaline cells!
At some time, ......... your own ability to record with very high
quality microphones will be desired.......... the DSM microphones
system also on my site is an excellent good value.................
a perfect match to the D100/M1 deck in everyway.
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard Lombardo
----------------------------------------
Subject: M1
Back Light Noise?
Date: Thu,
6 Aug 1998 05:37:31 -0700 (PDT)
Hey all
I'm an official DAT-Head now - my Sony M1 arrived yesterday! :)
I have a question for other M1 owners - the manual says that if
you
use the back light during recording, it may make noise on the
tape.
Has anyone found this to be true? Does the D7/D8 manual
make the same
statement?
happy to be here,
-Bruce
>>
Welcome
to DAT-Heads Bruce,
Yes the backlight does add some noise to the recording.
But I've only been able to hear this when the Mic Sensitivity
was on (H) with D7/8 decks or Attenuation was on 0db with the
D100 / M1 decks.
Most recording is done in the (L) or -20 db Atten setting; with
less gain being demanded from the mic preamplifier, the backlight
noise is not audible to my perception with this setting.
I don't hesitate to use the backlight under these conditions of
lower mic gain.
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard Lombardo
----------------------------------------
<<
Subj: Minidisc vs. DAT with DSM Microphones
Date:
9/9/98 11:28:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: @ix.netcom.com (Jamie S)
To: GuySonic@aol.com
Hello,
I am looking for advice on a good recording setup. I have
read the majority of your web page and your microphones seem to
be very good. My primary purpose will be live concert recording.
Is it better to got with a MiniDisc or a Portable DAT recorder?
What setup would be best for use with your product and what would
I need to buy from you. Any information or sites you could
direct me to would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Jamie Spelsberg
--------------------
>>
Hello
Jamie,
Thank you for expressing interest in the DSM mic system and providing
some information on your interests.
Mini-Disc is an interesting medium for recording that has improved
with better (lossy type) encoding over the past few years, but remains
behind a DAT deck in suitability for concert recording mainly from
the MD's short recording time (74 min?) and cost (now down to about
$5per disc) of the blank medium.
While the
Mini-Disc decks are very reasonable to initially purchase, you
may find that when pursuing this hobby for even a short length
of time, the blank disc costs will quickly exceed what you've
saved on the MD deck unless the blanks drop another 50% from current
costs.
On the other hand, a Sony TCD-D100 or PCM-M1 (virtually the same
deck, but M1 is pro-model/outlet distributed) will allow you to
adjust levels while making a recording (at least Sony mini-discs
decks need to be placed in pause mode) and media costs is about
$4-$5 for 2 - 3 hour length tapes. Quality of the DAT remains
much greater for hobby to professional purposes.
The main drawback, other than the higher purchase price, of the
mini-DAT deck over the MD is that DAT decks have a VCR type transport
that starts to wear the heads (and occasionally also the guides)
after 500-1000 hours of usage. Service to replace
heads and guides is currently about $150-$200. However,
500 hours of recording represents a lot of enjoyed use.
Using these smaller decks also for playback means that in about
3-4 years, service probably would be needed to keep things working
reliably.
Larger AC only Standard sized DAT decks generally give good service
of at least twice that period and many go 3000 or more hours without
significant wear, but all need occasional fabric tape or a technician's
manual cleaning. The larger DAT decks are a good investment
for home playback and copy purposes.
No audio medium is perfect. The optical disk/transports
seem the most immune to wear (if handled carefully), but no practical
and affordable recorder at this time exists other than MD for
portable use.
I agree that both MD and DAT have their shortcomings and I've
tried the Sony R30 and R50 MD for a short time and find the necessary
manual level setting quite awkward by DAT standards but the MD
quality is quite acceptable for concert use if the mic is matched
properly to the deck; same goes for DAT.
Let me know what types of music is your interest as the DSM mic
model will be identical for either MD or DAT deck. I suggest
the Sony recorder MD or DAT models mainly for known quality and
the ability to power the mics directly.
Check on the DSM powering page: MOD-2/PA-x Mic Powering
Page for bass controlling adapters with associated considerations
if you've not already seen this.
The DSM-6S/x models are mostly used for club/concert purposes
with M or L (i.e., DSM-6S/L) sensitivity designations and are
in-stock available at this time. The mic chart is at:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
Sorry for the long reply, but I hope to have answered most of
your questions about these rather complex issues.
==================================
<<
Subj: WM-D6C
Date:
11/26/98 11:59:34 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: @plee.com (Philip C)
To: guysonic@aol.com
Hello Leonard:
I use the WM-D6C and would be very interested to know the type
and brand
of tape that works well for you. Sony has not answered my Email
inquiries on this matter
I have had good results with Maxwell LXII type 2, and have purchased
two
cartons of Sony type 4 metal, 90 MTL SRB. Any suggestions
from your
experience would be appreciated.
Thank you.
--Philip C
******************
(snip) ...there is something about using certain
brands of cassette tape with that machine (I've owned three WM-D6C
decks
over the years) that can make a very poor sounding recording if
the deck
isn't adjusted for bias and overall recording level properly for
the type and
brand of tape used.
>>
Hello
Philip,
Well, for starters, metal tape is too hard on the WM-D6C in terms
of necessary power needed to fully utilize the benefits promised
by type IV metal formulations. Even most home decks lack
sufficient power to use metal tape to any advantage over type
II formulations. Increased head wear, recording distortion/loss
of clarity, and increased tape noise are common problems with
using metal on machines not equipped to supply many watts of audio
recording power to the record heads. A good indication of
a decks ability to use metal tape is the rated S/N ratio with
using Dolby C or S; should be at least 76 db; can be as high as
82 db S/N on decks that are prime to use metal IV to record with
real advantage.
The older runs of WM-D6C was originally biased and calibrated
for Sony's UX-ES and UX-PRO type II tapes for the best performance,
especially with Dolby B & C operation. If you've purchased
your deck in the last 6 years, then the top Sony Type II formulation
would be the one to choose as the most correct for what the deck
was set up at the factory to run with full benefit.
Sony no longer markets the UX-ES or PRO types as such and I've
not used these decks in the last 8 years to keep up with what
the current top type II formulation is called, but your best bet
is whatever top type II Sony has available now; they've always
made excellent Type II formulations in the past that was the equivalent
of any other top rated brand. Their fixed bias decks, like
the WM-D6C, usually always performed best with their brand of
tape.
I've got most of this information and other stuff related to DAt
and WM-D6C in the tapers tips section (linked off the taping tips
page http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm/ ) of my site.
Best Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard Lombardo
----------------------------------------
<<
Subj: Interested in mic elements / DAT or MD?
Date: 11/1/01 1:54:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: xxx@xxxxdental.com (JF)
To: GuySonic@aol.com ('GuySonic@aol.com')
I work for a dental equipment manufacturer, and have been working
on
a project to measure sound coming from our dental drills. The
work will not
involve anything as fancy as a stereo image, or anything like
that. It will
be mono recordings only. However I will need to be able to pick
up the sound
with a very flat frequency response microphone. The frequency
response of
your condenser mics look very good, and may be what is needed.
Is it
possible to get the unpackaged mic elements with only small wires
to solder
on to? How much would these mic elements cost for a single mic?
Do you have
calibration data for the mic elements such that it could be used
to
compensate the sound data generated by the mic to create a flatter
response?
The goal of this project at this point is to be able to record
the
sound of a dental drill, and play it back with enough precision
that a
listener would not be able to tell the difference between the
real drill,
and a recording played back through a speaker. The drill is a
point source
so if a good small speaker is used I think that I could faithfully
reproduce
the sound of the drill. Then we can filter a recorded sound, and
evaluate
what frequencies are the most annoying, and how much we have to
reduce a
particular frequency to reduce the annoyance to an acceptable
level. The
start of everything here is the microphone.
>>
Hello
Jim,
No
acoustical sound that exists in our world is anything less than
3 dimensional, regardless of how it is produced. To achieve a
realistic recording of any acoustic sound, you really need to
record it in multidimensional stereo using one of my microphone
systems. If you cannot realize this and do what many manufacturers
(see some hardware MFG customer profiles at page bottom: WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM)
are doing with using a DSM microphone + stereo recorder to capture
the actual sound of a product in operation, I cannot help you
further with this. I understand you think that recording is just
a function of microphone element feeding a recorder, but this
is far from the case in reality.
Please
see: http://www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm
for a brief overview of why your idea with a mono mic is far from
what is needed.
Suggestion:
The DSM-6/M ($350) is minimum cost mic model and the DSM-6S/H
($500) seems about best for your stated application. See mic page
at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
DSM
mics need powering before going into a good quality microphone
preamplifier;
see http://www.sonicstudios.com/pa_x.htm
While
using a Sharp SR60 or MT90 MiniDISC deck ($170; see current models
at Sharp MD-MS722) might work in powering the mic and making a
good quality digital recording, this may not be the case for your
unique project because you are producing very non-musical sounds
with high-speed drills and the lossy compression used by the MD
may not do the recording easily without adding some audible artifacts.
Therefore, for best recording of this type of sound, I suggest
the PCM-M1 DAT ($850 see http://www.sonicstudios.com/d100rev.htm
) as the best bet for most consistent recording ability.
If
you desire to record the drill sound exactly like it's actually
heard by the patient, then have this person head wear the DSM
mics for a virtual reality recording of the drills airborne acoustic
effect. The other vibration that also effects the patient is 'bone-conducted'
directly into the patients head and may require fitting a microphone
element tightly into the ear canal(s) to get some data on this
type of vibration; especially if deemed significant and also a
cause of patient discomfort.
Payment/Shipping/Ordering
guidelines are found at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
Sonic Studios "17 Years of Making Audio History with DSM
Stereo Microphones"
Featuring Patented Headworn or HRTF Baffled Gear for Field &
Studio 3-D Ambient Sound/Music Recording
---------------------------------
Informative Web Site: WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM
Microphone, Headphone, MD/DAT Portable Deck equipment reviews+Tips+MP3
sound files
USA FREE: 1-877-347-6642 1-(541)459-8839 TEL/ 42FAX
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<
Subj: dat recorders
Date: 10/31/01 8:37:35 AM Pacific Standard
Time
From: matej xxxxxx@hotmail.com (matej
xxxxxxxxx)
To: GuySonic@aol.com
I'm writing you from Slovenia, Europe. I found your site which
is very interesting. I want to buy portable digital recorder,
but I don't know which models are good for it's price. Of course
the best is Sony TCD-d100, or d7, d8, but I don't have so much
money, so could you tell me the best option around 200$.
I
will use my recorder for recording movie sound (instead of digital
Camera), recording live concerts, recording from mixers,...and
then putting sounds into computer to edit them.
Thank
you for all your help,
Matej
>>
Hello Matej,
As
you seem to suspect, the PCM-M1 (or consumer version D100) model
DAT is a much better value as it will last from wearing out at
least four times longer (~1500+ hours head life) over all previous
models including D8. See 7 page review at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/d100rev.htm
D100/M1
deck recording/playback features are superior and has native ability
to handle full Pro +4 dbv analog patch signals from most mix boards
WITHOUT NEEDING an in-series -15 to -20 dB attenuation network
like most other DATmodels and all consumer MiniDISC decks.
If
you desire to patch +4 dbv high level Line into MiniDISC or D8
DAT you need this SOLUTION for patching: Use a Line Input Attenuation
Adapter.
Description:
. . . -15 dB , costs $75 OR $85 here with either Dual Mono instrument
size Phono Jack OR XLR-3F input, BOTH VERSION with 3.5 mm stereo
plug to deck LINE input as the attenuation output.
In
any case, you may be wise in finding the DAT or Sharp model MD
deck locally in Slovenia or from any European source. An advantage
to MD (despite the GENERAL LIMITATIONS of consumer MD; see below
TXT discussion), is any currently available Sharp MiniDISC model
may save money needed for affording an excellent stereo microphone.
The choice of stereo microphone, and how it is used, is responsible
for at least 90% of for the recording quality, so plan to spend
wisely for the mic as most important for consistent satisfaction.
Another
advantage with using MD is that Sharp decks have native ability
to directly power the DSM mics at the mic input jack, but any
DAT you can buy will not do DSM powering with any confidence.
Therefore with DAT deck, you need to purchase a DSM mic powering
PA-6(xxx) model, but advantage is that the PA adapter can also
have a bass reduction filter. Bass reduction filtering (as with
PA-6LC2, PA-6LC3/B models) is sometimes quite useful for Rock/Blues
recording as described on page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/pa_x.htm
Suggestion
mic models for your projects is the DSM -6S/M for moderate loudness
POP concert/Rock Club or DSM-6S/L for louder POP/Rock Concert
or club audience recording; both these are $450 USD; OR $350 for
less precision channel matched DSM-6/M or /L models, but these
lower cost models are few at hand or sold out so please ask about
these if needing to reduce system costs.
Let
me know if recording loud Rock Concert is important and maybe
using DAT (or MD) deck with PA adapter for mic powering + bass
reduction filter is a good choice for your music interests.
EMS
shipping cost of these items together (but NO deck shipped) is
$32 USD + DSM mic cost + PA adapter cos (if ordering one), Mic
+ PA adapter will be sent as a personal gift to keep costs low
for you. Shipping a MD deck will cost an additional $32 USD (or
$202 USD total cost to you) as this would likely be sent seperately
to fit standard EMS easy-inspection envelope or can be sent with
DSM mic ONLY if hard case mic storage box is ommitted to allow
the mic to fit inside the MiniDISC deck box.
I
hope this is not (too) confusing for you and I am open to your
concerns and questions. Overseas payment and what I need to know
for shipping to you is discussed at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/ordering.htm
.
If practical, the Western Union Money transfer process for payment
seems best way next to sending international money order via 1st
Class Certified Postal Airmail (with return receipt of delivery
sent to you upon delivery here).
Best
Regards in Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard (& Debbie) Lombardo, Owners
----------------------------
Sonic Studios "17 Years of Making Audio History with DSM
Stereo Microphones"
Featuring Patented Headworn or HRTF Baffled Gear for Field &
Studio 3-D Ambient Sound/Music Recording
---------------------------------
Informative Web Site: WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM
Microphone, Headphone, MD/DAT Portable Deck equipment reviews+Tips+MP3
sound files
USA FREE: 1-877-347-6642 1-(541)459-8839 TEL/ 42FAX
------------------------------------------------
-----------
START OF PASTED TEXT -----------
To:
GuySonic@aol.com
Hello Leonard,
Friends and fellow radioheads Sandy Tolan (Homeland Productions)
and Ingrid
Lobet (Living on Earth) highly recommended your DSM mics to me.
I am an independent (i.e., poor) radio producer/reporter with
an interest in
documentary radio. I've been using MDs and omni mono mics for
several years,
and now feel ready to go to stereo and DAT. Like Sandy, I would
use these in
often-difficult field conditions, but nothing super-technical
(arctic
temperatures, underwater, outer space, whatever). I wonder if
you could put
together a package for me at a great price. It would include:
-- portable DAT recorder
-- DSM mic
-- windscreen & headband
-- belt-mountable battery pack
One last question -- do you think the DAT gives MUCH better sound
than the
MD? My main complaint with the MD has been lack of recording level
control;
your site lists Sharp decks with that feature. But old-timers
tell me that
the DAT sound is significantly better and worth the extra money.
Your
thoughts?
Thanks!
Jon M
>>
Hello
Jon,
Thank
you for the encouraging news of good words spoken about our recording
systems, and also for your concise description of interests and
requirements.
The
potential recording quality of the MD is now excellent, and there
is just recently a shift (some manufacturers) from DAT models
to making costly MD professional portables to market.
The
Sharp MD models are not designed or sold as a professional model,
but still an excellent value with the full Manual Recording features
and ability to do excellent sounding work even with the 5.5:1
reduced digital data ATRAC system common to all current MD decks.
However, all MD decks are somewhat limited (more or less as compared
to PCM-M1 DAT) in operating reliably when physically moving about;
the deck needs to be mostly motionless. In addition, MD's input
to VU signal REC Level adjustment (that which produces excellent
quality when correctly adjusted) is more limited or less forgiving
if misadjusted for recording a particular type of subject.
AN
EXAMPLE OF MD SETTINGS: VU levels that are acceptable (~ -12 DB
VU) for recording voice/music is at least 15 dB HIGHER than what
is acceptable for MD recordings of very complex, pure background
ambient; for this ~ -20 dB VU or less recording VU levels is suggested;
mostly because of MD analog-to-digital lossy compression scheme
that may produce audible artifacts if driven hard with complex
non-harmonic type ambient sounds. See tips page for more: http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm
Even
with these limitations, most amateurs (and professionals) have
found excellent quality recording, even if having a wide subject
interest, is fairly easy with Sharp MD + DSM mic systems. Reason
for this ease is the DSM model of microphone is appropriately
matched to the types of audio subjects recorded (the range of
sounds you intend to mostly record) AND to WORK CLOSELY WITH the
recorder's best input settings' see tips page for more about this.
See the chart on the mic page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm
Bottom
Line: You can almost halve the total recording system cost by
using a MD deck verses a DAT. But, the DAT deck is easier to use,
and more reliable in the long run; NO question DAT is the best
choice where cost is not an issue. See FAQ PAGES section 'Customer
Feedback' section and look for HTML page 38 for "DSM in Africa"
for reading about one recent MD + DSM exotic field recording success
story.
----------
END OF PASTED TEXT--------
|
